Different Thinkers: ADHD. A conversation with Dr. Katia Fredriksen & Dr. Yael Rothman - SE3EP20

Today, we're honoured to have Dr. Katia Fredriksen and Dr. Yael Rothman join us. As pediatric neuropsychologists specializing in comprehensive evaluations for children and adolescents, they offer valuable insights into supporting children with various conditions that impact their learning, behaviour, and socioemotional functioning. With the recent publication of their first book, "Different Thinkers: ADHD," they're making significant strides in helping families and children understand and navigate the challenges of ADHD. As they share their journey and expertise, let's explore how their work is reshaping our understanding of ADHD and offering hope and practical strategies for families.

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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Parenting in the Digital Age podcast. Many parents are concerned that their child might be falling behind. Others are just looking for ways to help their children thrive, not just in the classroom, but socially and well into their future careers. Each episode we explore the challenges facing parents in the modern world, from behavior, education, and nutrition to device and gaming addiction. We interview a range of leaders in the area of childhood development to help you successfully navigate parenting in the digital age. Here is your host, Jamie Buttigieg.

Hello parents and welcome to Parenting in the Digital Age, the podcast where we delve into the unique challenges and opportunities of raising children in today's fast -paced tech -driven world. Each episode features conversations with experts and thought leaders who provide actionable insights and practical guidance for navigating life as modern parents.
Today we are honoured to have Dr. Katia Fredriksen and Dr. Yael Rothman join us. As pediatric neuropsychologists specialising in comprehensive evaluations for children and adolescents, they offer valuable insights into supporting children with various conditions that impact their learning, behaviour and socio -emotional functioning. With the recent publication of their first book called
thinkers ADHD, they're making significant strides in helping families and children understand and navigate the challenges of ADHD and neurodiversity. As they share their journey and expertise, let's explore how their work is reshaping our understanding of ADHD and offering hope and practical strategies for families.

Jamie (00:01.316)
Dr. Fredrickson and Dr. Rothman, welcome to the show. Please for our listeners, just share a little bit about what you do and what you're passionate about.
Yael Rothman (00:09.974)
course. Hi, I'm Yael Rothman. Both Dr. Fredrickson and I are pediatric neuropsychologists. And for those of you who may not be aware, a neuropsychologist we like to call ourselves thinking doctors. We look at how people think and learn through a lot of different activities and assessment. We specifically work with children and adolescents and people come to us because of
challenges that their child might be experiencing socially, emotionally, with attention or executive functioning, learning, several different issues across the board. And we find out how we can help them and create a treatment plan. And we're passionate about supporting families and children and making sure that kids understand how they think and learn best and become their best advocate.
Jamie (01:09.088)
Thanks for sharing. Tell us a little bit about the journey that led you to specialize in pediatric neuropsychology, in particular the area of ADHD. Was a similar journey for you both? Now, did you guys meet at college or something, or is it a different journey entirely?
Katia Fredriksen (01:24.386)
Well, we both work at the same practice now, and we have for the past few years, and that's how we met. But we both, I mean, it's a similar trajectory in the sense that you do your undergrad in psychology, right, Yael? I did mine in psychology.
Yael Rothman (01:44.522)
Mine was in biological psychology. Yes. Yes
Katia Fredriksen (01:47.078)
Oh, okay. So yeah, some form of psychology. And then when you go on and you get your PhD in clinical psychology, and then you do a two year postdoctoral fellowship with emphasis on neuropsychology before you embark on sort of working either privately or at a group practice or whatever it is. And I was interested in it because it's a really cool, I think, combination of the scientist practitioner model where you are
a clinician, you're working with people, you get to spend time with families and be a part of their lives, but you're also a scientist, you're gathering data, you're testing hypotheses, and so I really like the combination of those two things. It's something that I think will be interesting forever because each case is different, each family is different, you're always learning something in you, and the more interested you are in your job, the better, I think you'll probably be at it, right? And then the pediatric piece.
I have a much younger brother, he's my half brother, he's 30 and for those of you who may not be seeing this visually, I am older than 30. And so I was a teenager when he was growing up and so watching him grow up, I really sort of, I just really enjoyed it and I thought it would be fun to work with kids. Of course, now that I have my own kids, sometimes I question that decision. Overall, I think it's still a great decision. So I don't know if there's anything different for you, Yael, but that was my personal sort of journey to this point.
Yael Rothman (03:10.782)
I actually had never heard of the profession until college and I took a neuropsychology class and I was like, wow, this is amazing. I thought I was going to be a medical doctor instead I went the PhD route, but this just combined my fascination with neurology and abnormal psychology. And I was able after college, I was very lucky to be able to do some research in England on autism.
and epilepsy and that helped me just find more on this path and both of us do a pretty broad specialization in pediatrics. So ADHD is definitely an area we're specialized in but also in other developmental conditions as well. So that's, it's been a very cool.
We've had so many amazing opportunities and I just feel very lucky.
Jamie (04:10.144)
incredible journey and it's that the passion is evident in you both. So I was really looking forward to today, today's podcast. Normally I leave the book till the end of the show when we talk about the book. But I want to talk about this a little bit earlier on because it might inform the rest of our dialogue together. But you've written a book. I talked about it in the intro there, but what inspired you to write this book called Different Thinkers, ADHD and how does it differ from maybe some of the other available resources that are out there for families?
Katia Fredriksen (04:40.518)
Well, part of as our field has evolved, many of us have become more cognizant of the value of giving direct feedback to children. So we were trained, the model we were trained in was very much oriented around the adults. And so you gave feedback to the parents, the recommendations, good luck, maybe see you again for a reevaluation toodaloo kind of scenario. But as we sort of progressed.
Many of us have come to the understanding that it's really valuable to speak directly to the kids as well. And so for some time people have been doing that with teenagers, but I think it's becoming more commonplace to also include younger children as well, to give them an understanding of their own profiles. And so that's something that we incorporate in our clinical practice. And very often an element of giving feedback, sometimes it's direct feedback, sometimes it's indirect.
Katia Fredriksen (05:34.67)
And so we sort of keep a finger on the pulse of what's out there because people are just often asking us and we want to really be able to recommend resources that we trust. And so we noticed just maybe a little bit of a hole in the literature with regard to children's books specifically designed to describe sort of the fully encompassing elements of a diagnosis.
as opposed to a single characteristic, right? So there are lots of books out there that are, you know, so-and-so has trouble minding what they say, or so-and-so struggles with personal space or whatever it is, but they don't necessarily pull that together in terms of a cohesive, here's what that means, here are other characteristics that may be associated with that, here are strengths that may be associated with that, here's what we can do about it sort of as a whole. And so that's what we were hoping to provide with this resource.
Jamie (06:31.712)
Yeah, wonderful. So go ahead. Yeah.
Yael Rothman (06:34.064)
And no, I, that's definitely the path that led us here. And we also love to do creative work and figure out how we can share information in a really child-friendly way. So it was a fun thing for us to collaborate on as well.
Jamie (06:52.32)
It was and the language in the book, the narrative and the imagery in the book is simple, the wrong word, but it's so relatable, particularly to the younger audience. And I think you both right. There is a gap in that part of the market, particularly for those younger children in your book. You emphasize understanding ADHD beyond the stigmas and the myths. What are a couple of these myths and stigmas that parents might not know about?
Katia Fredriksen (07:19.322)
So many, you go ahead.
Yael Rothman (07:21.066)
Definitely, I would say when parents come into our office, one of the most common misconceptions that we hear about is something like, my child probably doesn't have ADHD because they focus for five hours on video games and there's no way that they could have a problem with focusing. And we talk a lot about how this diagnosis, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder,
isn't really named correctly. It's not a deficit of attention, it's really attention variability. As I saw you shaking your head, so you probably are aware of this as well, that it's that an individual can hyper-focus on things that they're interested in and then lack focus on things that they're not interested in. So that is a very common thing that we hear about. In terms of stigma.
A lot of parents also come into our office saying, we don't want our child to know about this diagnosis. And the stigma behind that being a label is going to hurt my child is often what we hear about. It's going to make them feel different, make them feel othered. Maybe the parent had a bad experience with a diagnosis as a child and how that made them feel. And we really see.
a different side that actually children are so much more self-aware than what we give them credit for. Even young kiddos know something is going on that's making them feel different, that they are being called out more in class than the other kids around them, that they need to learn the lesson again at home because they just weren't paying attention in school. And unfortunately, what happens when you don't understand what's going on is you give yourself negative.
attributions, right? So a child will start thinking that they're stupid or they can't do anything right or they'll never be as good as whoever's sitting next to them when that's completely not the message we want to give. We want to share with them. You have an amazing mind. There are so many beautiful gifts that go along with this diagnosis but
Katia Fredriksen (09:35.043)
Yael Rothman (09:41.271)
There are also things that you can learn how to work on and support yourself.
Jamie (09:48.404)
Yeah, and it's important that they realize that not something's wrong, but when they have that knowledge, they can have a more empowered and thriving life, right, rather than hiding this diagnosis from them. But I get it. Like I'm a parent, so I've got four kids. I've got two grandkids. So, like, you know, I get I get. Sorry.
Yael Rothman (10:06.279)
Oh wow!
Katia Fredriksen (10:11.968)
Probably one of them right now, huh?
Yael Rothman (10:13.163)
Yes, it sounds like one of the kids are calling.
Jamie (10:15.685)
No, it's literally spam call. I'm gonna just turn that on silent. Apologies. So.
Yael Rothman (10:21.202)
No worries, I just learned how to do not disturb before this, so it's fine.
Katia Fredriksen (10:25.638)
I'm sorry.
Jamie (10:26.812)
Very good, very good. So how, okay, so how can then parents best support their children's understanding and acceptance, particularly these, let's talk about younger children. How can parents best support their children's understanding and acceptance of an ADHD diagnosis?
Katia Fredriksen (10:45.274)
Well, we tend to like using the idea of neurodiversity as a basis for explanation and understanding in the sense that all brains are different. Doesn't mean good or bad, just means different. Doesn't mean right or wrong, just means different, right? And each different sort of brain comes with its own set of strengths and its own set of things that are harder. And it can be useful if parents can do some modeling in that moment and sort of be like, well, yeah,
X thing has always been a bit harder for me. And as part of the modeling, we want to show a growth mindset. So X thing has always been harder for me. And I worked harder at it, and I got through what I needed to get through, whatever it is. I mean, again, we want to model that it's normal to have things that are harder, and we can work on them. And so the narrative for ADHD, I think, tends to be at least.
when I'm thinking about it tends to be, you know, there are certain things you are needing to work harder at in the classroom than other kids are, right? There is just, it's not your fault, it's not just is what it is, and so it's just something to be aware of, and here are xyz things that we
The grownups around you are going to help put in place to help support you and that you can sort of speak up for as something that is a helpful tool for you in terms of where you sit in the class or whether you have a fidgety thing or whether you take a medication or whether you get extra time on a site, whatever it is that is deemed sort of appropriate in that particular case, there are things we can do to help with this.
Yael Rothman (12:24.938)
And using a resource to work together like our book can be helpful for the parent and the child to do together. The book goes through the exact same things that Kachy was just talking about. And here is how your brain works, here are some beautiful things. And have the child be a part of this conversation. What are things that are your strengths? What are things that you find difficult? And how can we support these areas?
Jamie (12:53.216)
Yeah, and it really comes back to that concept of different thinkers. I mean, we you said it beautifully in your commentary there that we all think differently, whether we have a diagnosis or we don't, you know, play to the strengths, just have these conversations and have them often and normalize it. Is that the right way to say it? Just just kind of normalizing that.
Katia Fredriksen (13:09.228)
Katia Fredriksen (13:14.926)
Yeah, and just to be aware that, I mean, sadly, but realistically, kids with ADHD are shown to receive a lot more negative feedback than kids without ADHD. A lot of don't do that, stop this, why are you blah, stop, don't, don't. And so it's just so important for parents to be aware of in terms of trying to balance their feedback, to skew in a more positive way, to sort of find things to praise.
to remember the concept of so-and-so. It's not necessarily that so-and-so is choosing not to do this. Perhaps so-and-so is not yet ready to do this, and how can I support that skill development, et cetera.
Yael Rothman (13:54.63)
And, and thinking about all the positives that different thinkers contribute to the world and sharing that there's a high number of CEOs who are, who have ADHD and athletes and artists and, and how that really can support some beautiful creativity and out of the box thinking.
Jamie (14:15.072)
Yeah, yeah, well said. You include in your book some thought-provoking prompts, and could you maybe share how these prompts can facilitate conversations between parents and children?
Yael Rothman (14:27.414)
I'm so glad they're thought provoking. So. Ha ha ha.
Katia Fredriksen (14:29.098)
Yeah, I know, that's good to hear. I know, I love that adjective. That was a good...
Yael Rothman (14:34.774)
So we wrote the book to speak to the person reading it. So there's a lot of does this ever happen to you and so it's supposed to start a conversation about is the child experiencing that. We've actually heard some really cool feedback that even children without ADHD have been reading the book with their families and saying
no that doesn't happen to me but I do know that happens to another kid in my class and they start talking about that a little bit which is really cool and exciting that they're sharing and understanding neurodiversity that way too. And then at the end is like a workbook where it is fill in your strengths, fill in your challenges and come up with some ideas of how to support these. So it's supposed to be an interactive
work with the caregiver or professional or whoever's doing that.
Katia Fredriksen (15:34.202)
Yeah, and then at the end, we just include some tips for parents, just a little bit of a, you know, think about these things before you read the book with your child, as you read the book with your child here, just some additional ideas to consider to make the conversation, you know, as sort of meaningful and productive as it can be.
Jamie (15:54.736)
So being a podcast about parenting in a digital age, I would have to ask a question about that. And the question is, how has the digital age impacted children with ADHD? And what advice do you have for parents navigating this?
Yael Rothman (16:11.934)
It's really interesting because you think about how individuals with ADHD actually do have more of a hyper focus on technology at times and so we definitely can see that. Studies have shown some correlation between like high use of screens and ADHD, but it's not that it causes this. It's a correlation. It's not causation.
It is that individuals with ADHD are able to more focus on things that are quite stimulating, like screens. So then it becomes also that the children who might be more hyperactive and impulsive, the parents are getting a few minutes to themselves in these situations. So actually the screen use can maybe be even a little higher in these situations as well. So what do we do?
I think that it's about managing. It's all about making sure that the child is getting what they need, getting their proper sleep and all of these pieces, as well as having those moments of calm and allowing them to have their screen time as well. So it's a lot of balancing. Yes, please, Katia.
Katia Fredriksen (17:26.338)
Yeah. And no, I was just going to say, yeah, it's all about the balance. We don't, parents will ask, oh, well, how is, how much is an OK amount or what's appropriate? And I never want to give a guideline because I don't, I think that, again, each family, each child, everyone's different. It's more about being sure, like you always saying, that the time on screen is not taking away from the other activities that might be more productive that need to be a part of the child's day.
The kid needs to get some exercise and run around. They need to get a good night of sleep. They need to practice their reading. They need to have some proper, just normal old-fashioned playtime, right? They need to chat with their family. So we want to, I would never say, oh no, zero screen, no, there's never, no screen time at all. I mean, screen time serves a purpose. And there are plenty of kind of cool academically oriented apps out there that are actually surprisingly fun.
So I mean, you can certainly use it productively. Again, it's just a matter of balance. And then I think about being clear and consistent and structured in terms of what is permitted. It's not like, oh, one day I've got a lot of... And pause for a sec. I mean, just to say, we're all human beings, so we can't always adhere to these things. So right now I'm sitting here and my kids are downstairs watching TV because my husband's out and I'm just like, well, I don't want them busting in here. So I mean, we will use tools at times.
Right, and that's okay, and we don't need to feel guilty about that. But in general, just trying to keep a relatively consistent, it's around this time of day that you get your screen use. It's approximately this amount of time. So that, and that's just a good rule of thumb in general for kids with ADHD, a structure, predictability, sort of consistency. And then that also helps with the transition off the screens, which can be difficult.
Yael Rothman (19:08.223)
Katia Fredriksen (19:15.638)
If it's a variable rate of reinforcement, right? Where, oh, well, if I keep fussing, mom lets me get extra time when I fuss, and so I'm just going to fuss, because I've learned that gets me extra time. Whereas if it's a consistent sort of, okay, I mean, I'm not going to rip that out of your hands, but if you don't stop now, you're going to lose your time tomorrow. Just being consistent about those sorts of things, I think is very important.
Jamie (19:38.44)
Yeah, very much so. Let's switch for a minute and talk a little bit about schools and the role schools play or should play in supporting children with neurodiversity, not just ADHD. How can they better collaborate with parents or what would you like to see, you know, like relative to your part of the world with respect to the role that schools play with neurodivergent kids?
Yael Rothman (20:04.854)
What we're looking for schools is to provide an even playing field. So, if individuals with ADHD require a certain seat in the classroom that will support them, like maybe not by the window, maybe next to Sally, but close so that the teacher can pay some attention to them, we want them to just be present and available for learning. We ask for accommodations, things like...
extra breaks to reset, maybe just getting a drink of water. For younger children, giving them, or for other kids too, allowing them to have movement. Sometimes having the teacher even make them the person who passes out the paper, the helper in the classroom. So it's a more positive interaction. You get to be the assistant today and move around a little bit. That teachers are aware of how much
feedback that they're giving? Is it all negative? Don't do that. Stop. You're talking too much. Or are we providing the praise and the positive feedback too? And that teachers remind themselves and we all need to do this. Again, this what Katia was saying, the can't versus the won't. Is this something that this child...
Because we know that individuals with ADHD develop their prefrontal cortex slower, so their brain development is slower than their peers, that means their executive functioning skills are weaker. Is this something they cannot do, they have not developed the skill, or is this something they're being willfully oppositional? And I would say, we both would say, that almost every time it's not a child who wants to be bad. That is never really what a child wants.
They want to be good, they want to be praised, they want to do well. And so we just want every professional to be aware of that. And then parents too. Yeah. Katia, would you want to add anything there? Yeah.
Katia Fredriksen (22:07.126)
I think that's great. And I just, I would encourage, I mean, if any teachers are listening to this, I really appreciate it when teachers speak up and give parents honest feedback. And I know that can be hard because parents aren't always at a place where they're ready to hear something. And sometimes the teacher is the first one bearing a message that parents might not like or might feel uncomfortable with or threatened by or whatever it is. And so I know that it must be hard. I imagine it's difficult.
Yael Rothman (22:16.098)
Katia Fredriksen (22:32.538)
But oftentimes when families do come in and get evaluations with us, it's because of something the teacher said that really clued them into something they might not be aware of. Because the teacher's obviously sitting there in a classroom of 20 kids of the same age. And so they can really tell, oh, well gosh, I mean, this particular skill is much harder for so-and-so. Whereas as parents, we just don't have that sample size to look at. And we don't always know what to expect, what's typical, what's not. So...
I really appreciate it when teachers speak up and give parents a little prod if they need it to seek out additional information support, etc.
Yael Rothman (23:09.982)
And when the teachers don't say it, but they tell us about those challenges, that's always really hard for families too. Why didn't we know? Why? But like Katia said, it must be a very difficult conversation to have.
Jamie (23:26.084)
It is because some parents aren't always ready to hear that news and it may, you know, it may feel confrontational to the teacher. So like I get both sides. But let's say talk about those parents. So if you're a parent who might be listening now and you suspect your child may have ADHD or neurodiversity of some sort, what steps do you recommend they take to get a comprehensive evaluation? Because there are also many
Katia Fredriksen (23:36.61)
Yeah, me too.
Jamie (23:53.46)
out there probably listening who are also thinking, I don't want to get the label. We're managing and we're just fine and we're going to work through this and a little bit stoic about the whole situation. So what advice do you have for parents who may suspect there's something.
Katia Fredriksen (24:11.27)
I'd want to know, I mean, is managing good enough, right? Is that sort of your top bar? Is going through life sort of managing, quote unquote, an adequate way to live and an adequate sort of life to model for your child? If there is something more that you can find out where there is a relatively, potentially a relatively sort of simple set of interventions that could be in place to support your child, wouldn't it be great to seek that out and get it for them?
I mean, we're always striving to do the best we can to help our children have good lives, right? And be meaningful members of society. And if there's anything we can do to sort of help with that, I think we should. Now, that said, I know it's scary. And sometimes we just, oh, well, maybe I'll just wait a little. Maybe he'll just grow out of it, or maybe it's just a phase. And I completely understand that too. I've gone through that sort of stuff with my own children as well. So I tend to, I mean, if you're sort of someone who's falling in that...
category, I would just be careful not to let it go too long, right? Because there are so many parents who come in and they see us and they regret that they didn't do it sooner because there's something that we could have done. For example, with learning disorders, we know early and intensive intervention is the most, you know, is the best way to reach good outcomes. And so if you leave it, you just don't want to leave things too long. I'm never going to say it's too late. It's never too late. There's always something can be done, but sometimes it does make a difference if you come in.
a bit earlier as opposed to a bit later. So I would always just say, if you need to still wait and see and think about it, just set yourself a time limit. Because otherwise life is busy and time goes by so fast. Like it's say it's, whatever it is now, it's March 20th. So just say, okay, I'm gonna give this three months. By June 20th, I'm gonna just mentally check back in with myself and put that in my calendar. And I'm gonna see how this is looking now. Have things started to improve or have they not? And if not, maybe I need to start thinking about this more seriously.
And then, yeah.
Yael Rothman (26:10.614)
I also think a lot about the child themselves that like early intervention is wonderful, it also is easier for a child to accept help when they're younger because the stigma isn't really established yet. That getting tutoring or extra help or all of these pieces or even a diagnosis, they don't know very much about that yet. And actually you can.
start forming it to be this positive, wonderful experience that you get to learn how your brain works. You get to say what works for you. You can learn how to be your best advocate and help form that from a young age. A 16-year-old learning how to support dyslexia or something, again, can happen. It just might be more complicated.
a hard identity formation for shift. Yes, thank you for the young person.
Katia Fredriksen (27:08.254)
shift. I wish I didn't know all the tests because wouldn't it be cool to get tested, Yael? Yeah, I know, I know. I think it'd be so cool. But we know all the questions, so we'd come out looking like geniuses. But I've thought that before. Wouldn't it be so cool to go and get a test better?
Yael Rothman (27:17.2)
for us to get tested.
Jamie (27:22.244)
Yael Rothman (27:27.366)
Yeah, I also think that all the parents listening, if you have a question, ask. I talk to your general practitioner about that. Talk to your teachers, your child. Ask questions. I think that's always great to find out. Yeah.
Katia Fredriksen (27:44.974)
Yeah, be the squeaky wheel. Be the squeaky wheel. Yeah.
Jamie (27:46.924)
Yeah, it's quick. We'll be curious. Uh, there's so much going on in there and, and incredibly insightful, but I love that notion Katia about, you know, is managing the best, is that the best you can do? You know, it's almost like, don't you owe it to your child? Don't you owe it to yourself? Like what if just, just have an evaluation and, uh, you know, there's nothing to lose in that and, uh, you know, if you can find the, uh, the tools and the strategies, uh, to, you know,
your child's quality of life, improve your family's quality of life. Like, don't you owe it to everyone? Uh, I really love that notion.
Katia Fredriksen (28:18.971)
Right. Yeah, and the knock-on affects what you just mentioned about the family's quality of life. I mean, so often when there's one kid struggling, it affects the whole family, doesn't it? It stresses out the parents, the siblings, and yeah, that's a good point for the whole family's benefit.
Jamie (28:38.148)
Really does. Different thinkers, ADHD, the title kind of alludes to a series. If you've got what's planned, give us a sneak peek. Can you give us a sneak peek?
Katia Fredriksen (28:49.119)
Yael Rothman (28:49.37)
Yeah, yeah, we are hoping to make it a series. Our next one coming up next year will be about autism. So different thinkers autism. And then we will write about learning disabilities and anxiety as well. So I we look forward to continuing to talk about the amazing different thinking brain.
Jamie (29:11.5)
Wonderful. Before we ran off the podcast, there is one very important question that I always ask our guests. And that, and you can answer this individually, of course, is that if you had a time machine and you were able to go back to your 12-year-old younger self, what's one piece of advice you'd give to your 12-year-old younger self? Only one.
Katia Fredriksen (29:31.334)
God, only one?
Okay, I know what mine is, I'll go ahead. Mine is, stop being so self-involved. People do not care as much about you as you think they do. Like not everybody is watching you in the hallway. Oh God, I got like a terrible, there was a hair-related perm incident, which one doesn't, I don't wish to reflect on except in this single moment that happened around that age. And I remember just being mortified for weeks and they don't care. Everybody's too busy worrying about themselves and their own insecurities.
Yael Rothman (29:36.746)
All right, go ahead.
Katia Fredriksen (30:04.638)
I have two daughters and I just wish I could pass that on to them. I just think it's something you have to learn yourself as you go through life. But I wish I could pass that on. Just be more comfortable in your own skin, you know?
Jamie (30:16.612)
Great advice.
Yael Rothman (30:17.198)
Gosh, that's so important and I feel like I was the exact same at 12, that I just, the lack of self-confidence and thinking that everything that happened was going to last forever and that it gets better and that you feel so much more who you are as a 30 or something year old and older. And I wish I felt...
confident at 12 and understood how small things were and how they wouldn't affect me forever.
Katia Fredriksen (30:55.673)
Jamie (30:56.824)
Wise advice, wise advice indeed. How can our listeners get in touch with you or connect with you on socials? Give us a few of those and we'll include those in the show notes.
Yael Rothman (31:08.79)
Yeah, we are on Facebook and Twitter, or X, and on Instagram under NeuroPsychMoms. That's N-E- M-O-M-S. And we also have a website, NeuroPsychMoms. So we would love,.com, and we would love to communicate with anyone, yeah.
Jamie (31:37.936)
Fantastic. I'll include those in the show notes. Different Thinkers, ADHD is available on Amazon or I suppose wherever you get your books. Yeah, Yael and Katia, thank you so much for your time, energy, generosity, wisdom today. This has been a fantastic conversation and...
Yael Rothman (31:54.383)
Thank you.
Katia Fredriksen (31:55.342)
Oh, thank you. So much fun. I love that question. The 12 year old. That's so cool. I just love that.
Jamie (32:02.172)
It's a great question to ask and think about, because it brings you back and thinks, okay, what is it that I wanna teach my own children? So it's an important question. Maybe let's catch up again when your next book comes out.
Katia Fredriksen (32:09.048)
Katia Fredriksen (32:16.462)
We'd love that. Thank you, we'd love that.
Yael Rothman (32:16.731)
Oh, of course. Yeah, thank you.
Jamie (32:19.684)
Thanks again for your time and look forward to keeping in touch. Cheers and bye for now.
Yael Rothman (32:24.598)
Bye, thank you.

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This episode is sponsored by Skill Samurai - Coding & STEM Academy