How Parents Can Help Their Child Get a Good Night's Sleep - Chantal Cohen
On today’s podcast we are joined by Chantal Cohen, who is a baby and child sleep consultant. We’ll be discussing the importance of sleep and how parents can help their infants get a good night’s rest. For those who want to reach out to Chantal: https://www.chantalcohen.com.au/ Sponsored by Skill Samurai www.skillsamurai.com.au
Automated Transcription of the Podcast:
Speaker 1 (00:04): Welcome to the Parenting in the Digital Age Podcast, many parents are concerned that their child might be falling behind. Others are just looking for ways to help their children thrive, not just in the classroom, but socially and well into their future careers. Each episode, we explore the challenges facing parents in the modern world, from behaviour, education and nutrition, to device and gaming addiction. We interview a range of leaders in the area of childhood development to help you successfully navigate parenting in the digital age. Here is your host, Jamie Buttigieg. Speaker 2 (00:40): Hello parents on today's podcast. We are joined by Chantal Cohen, who is a baby and child sleep consultant. In today's episode, we'll be discussing the importance of sleep and how parents can help their infants get a good night's rest. Now I know this is a wildly hot topic for parents because I myself became a grandfather seven months ago, her name's Zoe, and she's just the best. Uh, but sleep is one of the most talked about topics with our daughter and son-in-law around the dinner table. Uh, and I also know they're excited to hear this episode of the podcast in particular, as I'm sure many parents will be now, rather than me providing some pre-written bio and intro Chantel, please share with our listeners in your own words a bit about yourself, what you do and what you are passionate about. Speaker 3 (01:26): So, hi, um, thanks for having me on the show. Um, really, really interested to, um, reach out and chat to, um, parents and tired parents and, um, anyone wanting a bit more sleep with their little ones. Um, my, my background basically is, um, I was an early childhood teacher, um, and I just really found that while I was working with, um, little ones in the zero to two room that I just kind of had a knack for getting them to sleep. Um, and just, you know, um, helping parents, um, change, sleep habits and things like that. And I just became really, really interested in the importance of sleep and different ways children go to sleep and how reliant they become on, on us assisting them and things like that. Um, and then I went on to have three of my own girls who are 14, 12, and eight years now. Speaker 3 (02:17): And they're obviously good sleepers now, cause I can't wake them up in the morning <laugh> teenagers. Um, but yes, my first, um, child was a really, really terrible sleeper and I really, really struggled probably up till about 10 months. And then I yeah. Was just so, so exhausted and reached out and got some help, um, from another sleep consultant that really, really helped me. Um, and that was, that was a long time ago and it was relatively new people. Weren't really using sleep consultants at that at that time. Um, and it just showed me how detrimental and exhausting sleep deprivation can be and how alone you feel. And yeah, it just really motivated me, um, to start my own business, um, and help people get some more sleep and learn more about it and really hone my skills. Um, and so I studied for a year, um, at a sleep consulting, um, course and yeah, then I created my own, my own sleep consulting, um, business. And I've been doing that for about 10 years now, so, and I really love it. So it's good. Speaker 2 (03:22): Yeah, that's fantastic. And often these, uh, businesses are born out of pure passion and uh, you figure out what you're good at in life and, uh, what, uh, uh, you know, is really your purpose. So, uh, I admire you for that. Well done. Yeah. Speaker 3 (03:34): Thanks Speaker 2 (03:35): You. You're welcome. Um, so in for those who don't know, and, and I'm probably an older parent, um, what does a sleep consultant actually do? Speaker 3 (03:45): So, um, a sleep consultant basically will come into your home and, um, have a look at your sleep environment, how you're settling your little one, your routines, um, your little one's food intake, their milk, um, and any other issues, um, such as your routine wind down before bed and just really have a, a close look at that. Um, and, and then give you pointers and advice and new strategies on how to change these, how to promote sleep, um, and encourage sleep a lot better with your, with your child. Um, and basically just, yeah, sleep consultant. I, I, I guess it's just someone who's there to support you. A lot of people are fascinated by my job. They've never heard of a sleep consultant. Really. It's kind of a, a great, um, party conversation. Everyone's always like, what do you do? Oh, that's amazing. Um, and yeah, I really, I really, really love my job. Speaker 3 (04:38): It's, it's awesome. Um, my job is basically to lose sleep, to get parents sleep. Um, particularly when I'm doing a lot of overnights, which I am at the moment. Um, and the mom last night, when I, when I was leaving in the morning, she said to me, oh my goodness, I feel so amazing. So, um, because, you know, she, she had just got a really nice big block of sleep and it was probably gonna give her a lot, my energy for the next few nights to come. So, um, if, you know, when she had to implement the sleep, sleep settling, um, strategies on our own, and yeah, I think, um, using a sleep consultant can, can just be, can just be that great support and having that person in your corner that you can call and tell your successes and your losses about, you know, your little one went to sleep really quickly, or they really, really were tricky to fall asleep. Um, and yeah, just that, that great, um, support really, Speaker 2 (05:34): You know, as well as being that support, you know, I was on your website doing some pre-research before we got onto the call and, um, you know, reading some of those testimonials, like I think it selling this whole thing short. I mean, it's nothing short of life-changing for some parents, particularly who are struggling with sleep. Uh, life-changing is a word that seems to come up when I read about you. Speaker 3 (05:55): Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you. That's very, very lovely. So, um, I'm really, really like, adore what I do. Um, I meet so many amazing families. The parents I've been so lucky to work with the children, the babies, um, and yeah, it's, it is amazing. Um, and I guess it shows in what I do. Yes. So I'm really, really devoted. I said to my parents I'm really, really, um, motivated to get your little ones sleeping basically. So Speaker 2 (06:22): Yeah, you'd have to, you'd have to be there. I think Chantel to, to lose sleep, to help others get sleep is, uh, really, um, something you've gotta be passionate about, but can I just take a step back for one minute? Um, why is sleep so important? You know, there's, there's so much research out there as to the benefits of sleep. Maybe just talk to us a little bit about why sleep is so important, maybe also to our infants, to our children. Uh, yeah. But also to us as parents. Yeah. Speaker 3 (06:48): Yeah. So, um, yeah, I, we all want sleep. We all want more of sleep. Definitely. We want our kids to generally sleep longer. Um, and I don't have that issue cause I have two teenagers. They tend to sleep longer without me doing much at all. Um, I have to try and wake them in the morning. So I think it's just so important because it actually is, particularly for parents, it's be mood as well. Um, and often I'll say to parents that I feel like a really great motivation to seek help and to, to start becoming a little bit more consistent and a little bit more strict with, with sleep settling and, and your child overnight, um, is to make sure that you're the best parent that you can be. So sometimes parents will say, oh, I just don't, I just don't wanna do it. It's really tough. Speaker 3 (07:34): And I'll say, look, to be honest, you will be such a better mother. You'll be rested. You'll be happier if you've got other children as well, you will want to play with them. Actually, you want to do those things, extra things for them because you feel good. Um, and for me that is a, a great motivation and I think that makes you, you know, yeah. Like be a good, you know, be a good mother and things like that in that way. If, if parents are worried about making some changes. So, um, I think it's so important. Um, you know, looking at the research 97% of, um, sort of the complete brain development is, is created in the first three years of life. Um, and then that occurs primarily during sleep for children, so, and babies. So I think we can see why it's so important as well, um, to, to, you know, get them sleeping and get them just sleeping a bit more consistently without so many wake-ups and things. Speaker 3 (08:29): Um, studies have shown that, um, babies and children who regularly, um, get an adequate amount of sleep, they just have improved attention and better behaviour. You know, they're just a lot easier as well. Um, and I think they find life a little bit easier. There's not so many, I mean, there's definitely tantrums, but there's a lot less tantrums than they would be with children who are a lot, um, you know, a lot tighter than other children. Yeah. So, and you can definitely see that and yeah, the, the negative consequences for your child is, um, just that, um, yeah, that it, yeah, things are just, um, you know, they're very sleepy the next day. They might be a bit more drowsy, a bit more grumpy and, you know, a tired parent that can really affect a tired parent as well. If you're child, you're both, you're both as tired as each other, so really important to, um, try and get as much sleep as you can with that. So, yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (09:25): I'm, I'm really glad you touched on that because, you know, the importance of sleep is so much more, I mean, you know, that cognitive development and, and, uh, the health benefits are, you know, um, irrefutable, but it, it really does help us become better parents and who doesn't wanna become a better parent. Right? Speaker 3 (09:40): Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, yeah, that can definitely motivate you in your quest to get more sleep. Yeah, really when you, you know, it can, I often say to parents, I tend to say, you know, you need to know, you really need to want this as well. Um, because your child can tell and you need energy and you need to be re you know, have a certain mindset to, to make these changes. And I think that the, the end of the, you know, that you're looking at the end game is that you are gonna have that energy for your, for the, you know, for your kids. Um, and, and yeah, and be happy to actually be awake in the morning rather than dragging yourself out of bed thinking, oh, no, another day. So yeah, definitely for, you know, as we, as you were saying, mental health and physical health and all those sorts of things, it's so important as well. So yeah. Speaker 2 (10:32): So in your work, um, what, what are some of the main sleep issues that you see? Speaker 3 (10:41): So some of the, um, the main things that I see are, um, you know, rocking to sleep, a lot of parents do a lot of rocking to sleep. These are the main issues, um, and these are called sleep associations. So I'll go through some of them, some of them are quite interesting. And I have a, we have a lot of fun with them as well, because if you can't laugh, you'll cry. Um, and so some of them are like, yeah, rocking to sleep. As I said, patting fully to sleep. Um, I have seen a couple of dads get in the cot with their child, you know, and, um, I'm always like, you're so tall. I don't know how you got in there, but good on you. But, you know, that just shows you the desperation and, um, and have to call me. And they said, my wife said I had to call you. Speaker 3 (11:26): And, um, and confess that I got in the cot last night, even though I said, we wouldn't do it. And I think, oh, okay, well, let's start again tomorrow night. That's okay. Um, so another one is, is feeding to sleep. So whether, whether it's bottle feeding or breastfeeding, that's another issue as well. Um, and co-sleeping, um, the parents I worked with last night, they were doing everything co-sleeping bottle feeding rocking, and their son was so tall. He was only 14 months old. And I said, he's as big as you are. I don't even know how you're rocking him anymore. Um, but all of these things, they're great motivations for waking. You know, I always look at what is motivating that waking, and I can see it quite clearly when I, when I chat to the parents, um, some parents will get their children up to play during the night, which fair enough, they're wide awake, but that kind of sends that message to them that it's time to get up and maybe let you know, good times are gonna keep happening. Yeah. Or they might say, oh, they're still hungry. They're asking for food. If they're an older child and they'll get them up and feed them. And again, that leads to those sort of tricky sleep ha you know, habits, um, of, of the child thinking they can get up and, and have something because maybe they didn't eat properly at dinner. Um, and that, that can be really, really tricky. And these are really hard things to break as well. Speaker 2 (12:43): Yeah, they are. And, and even, um, I've heard of parents driving their child around, you know, putting the kid in the car car seat of a night and just going for a drive. Cause the only can settle that child. Speaker 3 (12:55): Yeah. Yeah. You know, really hard, really, really hard. And, and the rocking, particularly for me, that's one of the hardest ones in the feeding as well. If your baby doesn't have a dummy and you're feeding them to sleep and then you put them down or you even just remove the, the bottle or the, um, breast from their mouth, they often wake up because they might be using that as a pacifier. Yep. And so it's hard for them once you place them down to then resettle themself in the cart because they don't have their comfort that they've been using to fall asleep. Um, and the rocking often I have parents say, I put them down, they were snoring, their eyes were shut. The weight had changed. They were very, very deeply asleep. And as I went to put them down and they got closer and closer towards the cop mattress, they woke up and screamed and then I had to rock them again for another 20 minutes and then repeat cycle the entire night. Can you imagine so exhausting? So, um, it Speaker 2 (13:52): Is exhausting and Speaker 3 (13:53): exhausting and soul destroying. I'm like, how does soul destroy? And you just, you get them there. You're like, yes, I'm going back to bed, you know, and you, you get them in and they, they wake up and you think, oh, no, I've gotta start all over again. And, and I think with these sleep associations, a lot of them tend to, um, kind of create a bit of adrenaline and hypervigilance in children. Yeah. Because they're actually being quite watchful to make sure that the parent isn't stopping doing what they are wanting, whether it's panting or shushing or anything like that, any change your child would notice and would then often just wake Speaker 2 (14:29): That that's, that's massively insightful. There are some things that I learned in that, uh, uh, response there and, and even, um, as a, as a grandparent or as a, as a parent way back, um, you know, I wouldn't have not have thought that rocking or something like that was creating that association and you'd be sort of questioning, what am I doing wrong as a parent? I can't see what I'm doing wrong as a parent. So Speaker 3 (14:51): Fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, um, we have a new little addition in our, in our home that we got on Saturday. This is, meet Winnie, a little mini dachshund. And, uh, and I've been doing some gentle sleep work with her, um, and teaching my girls on how to, um, reduce patting and holding and things like that, just to increase, sleep and promote self-settling, basically. So that's been quite interesting and the girls are quite interested in learning about how, what I do for work and things like that. That's been quite, quite good. And yeah, she's getting there. She's only waking once so Speaker 2 (15:28): That the working once. So <laugh> that, that's a great insight. And for our listeners who, uh, uh, are joining us, we had this talk before we came on the, uh, podcast and that we've got two, uh, dachshunds at, at the back at the moment. Uh, hopefully quiet. Um, but, but I made the mistake with our first one. So our first one Dash is extremely needy and partially because I was making those mistakes as a dog parent, you know, I'd be literally, we were crate training her at the time. And so I was pacifying her by putting my finger in there and I'd go to sleep near the cage. Don't judge me now, just so she would go to sleep. So she's our needy dog. Speaker 3 (16:03): You went in the cage. Speaker 2 (16:05): No, no, no, I couldn't. I couldn't fit, but like, I'd be sleeping near the cage just so I could pacify her and calm her down. Yeah. As, as a father, you don't like to see your child cry. Speaker 3 (16:14): Of course. I hear, I totally get it. I say to parents all the time. I mean, that is just awful. I agree. I mean, and this little one, when she WHS, I have to set my girls, you know, please don't run to her because she's just ex you know, she's learning that cause and effect, and that's, that's a big part of my work that cause and effect of yes, you wanna show your child that you're around and you support them and love them. And that's totally, absolutely natural, but at the same time, it's about, um, yeah. Not running to them and, and really just giving them exactly what they're, what they're after. So, you know. Yeah. Um, yeah. And, and this one is, is, yeah, we're try trying to instill that in her and hopefully in a couple of weeks, she'll, she'll be sleeping through <laugh>. Yeah. And I'll get there, write my own review. Won't I write my own, a trained new dachshund. You'll see. I might have a whole new business opportunity, Speaker 2 (17:08): The Dash and I, I was gonna say we ended up with the second one. Yeah. And, um, because you and this may be, you may see this with parents and second children, I suppose. I, I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong, but, uh, with the second dog, this, uh, uh, Dixie, her name is she's grown up to be quirky, independent. Um, you know, she's quite happy to just do her own thing, but then when she wants love and attention, she'll come to you. But doesn't, isn't so needy as that first one, because she was raised different, right? Speaker 3 (17:37): Yeah. Absolutely. My third child slept through the night because basically I was so busy with the other two and they were very close in age. I would just pop her in the cot and be like, you're fine. I'd be running past going. You're fine. You're fine. And she would just get herself to sleep and she slept through and I was like, oh, this is so easy. But it was because I literally had absolutely no time. Yeah. And, and yeah. And you know, you can, as you said, yes, my first born is a bit different. <laugh> she's a bit more needy, my middle one. Not so much as you said, it kind of goes through, but yeah, definitely it's personality as well. Yeah. So you might find that Dash just, just actually is quite a, you know, a little bit of a needy dog. Um, and uh, he needs that reassurance a little bit more and that's okay as well. Speaker 2 (18:21): Yeah, absolutely. We love that about her now. Speaker 3 (18:26): No, Speaker 2 (18:26): That's no, that's that's okay. Um, the question I have talking about puppy raising is, is there a, a right age or is there a best age to start working on sleep? Speaker 3 (18:38): So I have lots of people. Um, I mean, I have lots of people contact me before they have the baby saying, when can I work with you? Yeah. I'm like, wow, that's good. Like, let's just see, they might be, they might sleep through. Um, and I have lots of parents contact me when their little ones are quite little. Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm fairly, you know, strict, I'll say to them, I'm, I'm not prepared to do any sort of sleep training or anything like that. Um, but we can definitely put into place great routines. Um, I'm a big believer in following the baby, so a loose routine, um, and following their lead a little bit more, but something that gives them boundaries and structure, which is good for both baby and mom, because, um, it, it makes you feel a little bit more in control, I guess. Speaker 3 (19:18): Um, and like, you know, you feel like, you know what you're doing and for the baby, it gives them those boundaries as well. And that security that comes from that, um, I tend to say probably from around four months is a great time to start just change, you know, really focusing on routine, um, you know, bedtime routines, wind down routines and encouraging that self settling through reducing, however you're assisting them to sleep before that age. I don't really mind if parents that, you know, hold your baby, cuddle your baby, do whatever you need to do, but start when you feel ready or that your child's becoming a little bit too dependent on you. I think it's really important to say I'm actually gonna pull back a little bit. Now, maybe I'm gonna rock a little bit less. Maybe I'm gonna feed a little bit less and then put them down or pat a couple bit, you know, little bit less, or when they're asleep in my bed, I'll move them in, move them back into their bed, just see small little changes that can actually make a really big difference without too much drama to your little one. Speaker 3 (20:12): Um, and then from about six months, you can definitely get a little bit stricter with that. Um, I tend to work up to about five year old, you know, five year olds, but I have, I am working with older children all the time. And recently I worked with a nine year old. So, um, and, and the parents were hadn't, hadn't had a, a decent night's sleep in nine years. Wow. So due to various reasons as well. Um, but the child, yeah. Just really, really needed a really great structure and just having someone actually come in, I tend to say that, I feel like when I come in, I reset the whole situation as well. And we will say things like in the morning, we're gonna let Chantel know how you went last night. So children particularly, you know, they really want to please me and they might send me a little message in the morning or a little, uh, you know, a little video message telling me that they slept through, or they stayed in their bed or they didn't have a bottle all night or things like that. So, um, parents will often be a little bit, um, concerned and feel like they've missed the boat. But I, I say there's never, there's never a, a missed opportunity. I think there's always time if, if you feel it's right and you've had enough and you're not being your best self, it's really important to reach out and get that help and support that's out there. Speaker 2 (21:28): Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's a, um, a great answer and give some context as to when we should start getting those things in place or working on, um, you know, the best age to start those, um, sleep plans or those strategies, if you like. Um, Speaker 3 (21:43): So yeah, definitely Speaker 2 (21:45): That sort of brings us to a, a more general question. So what are some of the ways that as parents that we could encourage babies and children to become better sleepers? Speaker 3 (21:55): So, um, as I mentioned before, I'm a holistic sleep consultant. So I tend to look at, um, environment is a really big thing for me. And I feel like that's something that parents can do and work on without, as I said, too much drama, too much Fu so it's really cold at the moment. And parents are, I've been to some really cold houses, um, floorboards, things like that. There are things that you can do just to, to make that room a little bit cozy if you've got floorboards, put a rug in, um, I probably would think about making it a little bit warmer. Um, not too warm, obviously, because that's not safe, but just taking the edge off, if you are going into the room and your child's hand and face are cold, they probably are a little bit too cold. And unlike us, they can't put their hands under a duvet. Speaker 3 (22:39): Yeah. Um, and get warm. So that can definitely be a cause of waking. Um, I tend to think that, um, you know, getting them to play in that room and making it have a positive association as well. Yeah. So that they want to go into that room, you know, um, a great bedtime routine playing in there before bed books, um, bottle in there, or milk, breast milk, if that's what they're having before bed. And again, making that really positive wind down to bed with a dim light, things like that. Um, and, and just that environment can really help making sure that they've got a sleep bag on if they're a baby, um, at a, you know, that's warm enough. Um, and definitely I'm going into homes and saying parents, I don't think your little one is warm enough. Um, and it is, it is scary because it's that you wanna be, you know, you've gotta definitely be safe, but you've also gotta just make sure that your little one is, is appropriately dressed as well and not underdressed. Speaker 3 (23:35): So using flannelled sheets, um, Jersey sheets, all of these things are a little bit cozier. If you have a flat cotton, I know it sounds ridiculous, but if you have a flat cotton sheet on your, on your mattress, um, and cop mattresses are awful anyway, you know? Yeah. They're so the SIDS, they, they, you know, I always say to parents who are co-sleeping well, fill your beautiful feather, latex, whatever mattress you've got amazing. Now feel theirs. And we're like, yeah, you know, no comparison. We know where they wanna sleep. They wanna sleep there in your bed with you. Um, and so just using things like that, like changing, um, the warmth of what they're lying on, that can be something a bit more reassuring for them to rub their face on, rather than a cold cotton sheep can be quite jarring at night, if you're rolling around and you wake yourself up because you've touched the cotton sheet that feels like it's ice, you know, immediate wake up. Speaker 3 (24:28): Um, yeah, just really, really, um, getting in, um, everyone just being on the same page, I think all carers, like you were saying, being a grandparent, um, everyone who's gonna care for that child. Everyone needs to be happy to do what they've gotta do. And, um, and all, you know, not sending any mixed messages as well, just making sure that it's not confusing for your child or your baby, because that can, that can really lead to a lot of waking. Um, and a lot of inconsistencies with the settle for them, and also can lead to longer protests. If, if someone all day, you know, dad always does it one way and he's, you know, he is rocking to sleep and mum saying, I'm not gonna rock to sleep. I'm gonna pat to sleep. Or I'm just putting that baby in that cotton leaving that can be really confusing for that child. Speaker 3 (25:13): So that's, that's a big one for me. Um, and yes, as I mentioned before, just trying to gradually reduce whatever you are doing can make a big difference. So if you're patting reduce the patting, reduce your hand. If you're sitting next to the cot, maybe move away gradually over a week or so, and then focus on leaving the room, um, pat, some sort of nice, um, lullaby or music playing overnight or through naps can be a great way of masking out, outside noise. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And also just being that reassurance to let them know it is sleep time and it's, it's time to relax and, and stay asleep basically. Um, there's, there's, I mean, there's so many I could go on forever to be honest. Um, a, another one is just to make sure you're ready for it. When you embark on something like this, it's really important that you've got, as I said before that mindset, and you're ready to, to change things and do things a little bit differently. Speaker 3 (26:08): It might not feel comfortable. Um, sometimes when our children cry a little bit, um, you know, it's, they can't talk often. They're telling us this feels uncomfortable to me. This feels a little bit different. I'm not used to that. It doesn't always mean that it's, um, you know, that it's bad for them or anything like that. And I definitely wouldn't advocate for a lot of crying, but I def, I, I definitely would say that, you know, they will protest a little bit because they'll say this, this doesn't feel right to me. I want, particularly if they're fed to sleep, if I want a boob in my mouth, I want a breast in my, you know, a bottle in my mouth or whatever. Um, and this doesn't feel right. This is uncomfortable and I'm gonna let you know about it and that's, that's fair enough. So we can then go to them, assist them a little bit and then try to help them do it on their own a little bit, and then go back and give a little bit more help again, if needed. So, um, but if you really encourage your little one to self-settle, you'll find that they will sleep longer. You will probably reduce your kid napping through the day, the short naps, um, and through the night you'll get longer cycles because they're able to go, um, length the cycles themselves without needing assistance or help from someone else. Speaker 2 (27:18): Yeah. So, um, yeah, so some really, um, encouraging and helpful advice there for parents in that, um, in that response, particularly the one I found interesting was creating that positive association with the bedroom. So in other words, you know, playing in the bedroom more, as opposed to having this separation between, you know, this is a space where we close you in and separate from creating that positive association. That's a really good one that, um, Speaker 3 (27:44): Uh, yeah, it's actually interesting because a lot of parents don't actually know about it and they'll say to me, oh, we've always been told to treat the bedroom as the sleep area and not to confuse the two and not have it as playtime, but I say, but then as soon as you go through that doorway, your child's adrenaline on cortisol levels, just raise, they go, you know, sometimes parents will say, oh, they cry. As soon as I go into the room or they cry as soon as I put their sleep bag on. And I don't think that's nice for anyone mm-hmm <affirmative> at all. Um, and even playing in the cop. That's okay. As long as it's not sleep time, just after that during the day, if you pop your child in the cotton and you are putting away clothes, or you are doing a few jobs in there, I think that is such a great, a great way to get your little one feeling a lot more confident in that co because at the end of the day, we want them to be able to, it'd be lovely if they could roll around and just fall asleep on their own and feel, feel happy in there and secure. Speaker 2 (28:35): Yeah. And that, that, that's certainly the goal. Now, a question that we love to ask all of our guests, as we conclude the podcast, uh, if you could go back and give your 10 year old self one piece of advice, what would that be? Speaker 3 (28:49): <laugh> uh, I was gonna say, get a dachshund earlier. They're very cute. Speaker 2 (28:53): <laugh>, that's the best advice. Speaker 3 (28:55): Yeah. The best advice get a downtown. They're really, really good. Um, yeah, I think just always be positive, um, dream big and, um, and enjoy every moment it goes so fast. I just watch with my girls they're growing up so fast and, um, yeah, I think, yeah, just enjoy every moment live every day. Basically. That's what I think, Speaker 2 (29:16): Wonder wonderful advice, Chantel. And, uh, where can our listeners find you online or how can they connect with you? Speaker 3 (29:23): So I've got a website, um, which is, uh, www dot Chantel co, which is C H a N T a L, not E E L. Um, and then Cohen, C O H E n.com.au. So that's my website. Um, and otherwise you can just find me on Google. You can just, um, Google my business, which is Chanko and sleep consulting, and you can connect through there. And it's got all my details on both of those, and you can read all my testimonials and you can read the services I offer. Um, and, and hopefully I can help, help more families and meet some more amazing parents. I'm going back tonight to help someone, um, in that I worked with on, um, Monday night, I gave them a night in between to kind of do it on their own and their little one slept through. Perfect. And he, yeah, he hasn't slept through in, in five months. So I'm going back tonight and we'll see if we can replicate that again tonight for him. So Speaker 2 (30:18): That is truly life-changing, Chantel. Um, look, thank you so much. I know there are lots of parents that got lots of benefits out of today's, uh, discussion and, um, set. Yeah. Thanks again for your time. Speaker 3 (30:29): Pleasure. Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And, uh, that's when you say goodbye <laugh> Speaker 1 (30:35):
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